{"id":6477,"date":"2015-11-20T05:00:49","date_gmt":"2015-11-20T05:00:49","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/?p=6477"},"modified":"2015-12-24T09:58:59","modified_gmt":"2015-12-24T09:58:59","slug":"the-challenge-from-suffering-what-is-good","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/the-challenge-from-suffering-what-is-good\/","title":{"rendered":"The Challenge from Suffering: What is &#8216;Good&#8217;?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>&#8216;What possible good reasons would God have for permitting evil?&#8217;<\/p>\n<p>This is a question often voiced when\u00a0an explanation of why God might allow suffering is presented. The <a href=\"http:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/the-challenge-from-suffering-logic-love-and-free-will\/\">Free Will argument<\/a>\u00a0goes some way to providing\u00a0an explanation for why a good God might allow suffering. To add to this line of thought it&#8217;s worth thinking about the nature of &#8216;good&#8217; itself. What do we mean when say something is good?<\/p>\n<p>The ancient Greeks were known for their deep thinking \u2013\u00a0and, thanks to 300, their incredible abs \u2013 had some ideas about this. They may have been around a long time ago but I think that they\u2019re not so different from you or I.<\/p>\n<p>One of these Greeks, a chap by the name of Epicurus, decided upon a\u00a0definition that what\u00a0is good is that which is pleasurable. If it feels good, it is good. We\u2019re not a million miles from that today in our society. In this way of thinking, a good thing is an event or action that results in pleasure, whereas, correspondingly, a bad thing is a something that results in pain.<\/p>\n<p>There is some truth to this. It is undeniable that many pleasurable things are good. A fun night at the pub with friends that leaves us feeling good, can be truly good! Likewise, breaking an arm when mountain biking is painful, and it is bad! But this definition isn\u2019t large enough to describe the whole picture.<\/p>\n<p>So we then ask, \u2018Are there things that are good that aren\u2019t pleasurable?\u2019 Well, what about selfless acts of bravery that risk life to save others? The parents, for example, who are badly injured after running back into their burning house to rescue their young child? We would all want, I think, to say that this is a good act.<\/p>\n<p>Richard Swinburne, Emeritus Professor of Philosophy at Oxford University and one of the top philosophers of religion in the last 50 years, acknowledges that the problem of pain in relation to a world comprised only of pleasurable goods would be a very big problem.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u201cMy suffering would be pure loss for me if the only good thing in life was sensory pleasure, and the only bad thing sensory pain; and it is because the modern world tends to think in those terms that the problem of evil seems so acute. If these were the only good and bad things, the occurrence of suffering would indeed be a conclusive objection to the existence of God.\u201d<a href=\"#_ftn1\" name=\"_ftnref1\">[1]<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Swinburne is saying that because there are some things which are good, which are not pleasurable, we can allow for the painful alongside the good without contradiction. The painful moment never, ever feels\u00a0<em>nice,\u00a0<\/em>but there can exist a deeper element to the moment which is truly good.<\/p>\n<p>In a me-centered culture, where my happiness is king, pain can be\u00a0a terrible thing.\u00a0When my felt-happiness is the most important thing for me then I will do all I can to avoid pain.<\/p>\n<p>Perhaps this is why so many people ask &#8216;Why?&#8217; when the pain comes. As Swinburne observes, the &#8216;acute&#8217; nature of pain when we&#8217;re living for pleasure is a shock to us. It&#8217;s\u00a0a\u00a0jolt that awakens us to\u00a0reality that our self-centredness has obscured. In this way, some pain is not without its (valuable) uses, as C. S. Lewis observed<a href=\"#_ftn2\" name=\"_ftnref2\">[2]<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is his megaphone to rouse a deaf world.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><a href=\"#_ftnref1\" name=\"_ftn1\">[1]<\/a> Richard Swinburne, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.amazon.co.uk\/gp\/product\/019958043X\/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;camp=1634&amp;creative=19450&amp;creativeASIN=019958043X&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;tag=apologetics-21\"><em>Is There A God?<\/em><\/a>, Oxford University Press, 2010, p. 89<br \/>\n<a href=\"#_ftnref2\" name=\"_ftn2\">[2]<\/a> C. S. Lewis, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.amazon.co.uk\/gp\/product\/019958043X\/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;camp=1634&amp;creative=19450&amp;creativeASIN=019958043X&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;tag=apologetics-21\"><em>The Problem of Pain<\/em><\/a>, Harper, 2001, p. 91<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_6455\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-6455\" style=\"width: 561px\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\"><a href=\"http:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/ultimate-survival-guide\"><img data-attachment-id=\"6455\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/the-challenge-from-suffering-logic-love-and-free-will\/attachment\/ultimatesurvivalguide-banner\/\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/11\/ultimatesurvivalguide-banner.jpg?fit=600%2C168&amp;ssl=1\" data-orig-size=\"600,168\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"The Ultimate Survival Guide\" data-image-description=\"\" data-image-caption=\"&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/ultimate-survival-guide&quot;&gt;This is an edited extract from The Ultimate Survival Guide &#8211; a book with answers to tough questions of faith.&lt;\/a&gt;&lt;\/p&gt;\n\" data-medium-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/11\/ultimatesurvivalguide-banner.jpg?fit=300%2C84&amp;ssl=1\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/11\/ultimatesurvivalguide-banner.jpg?fit=600%2C168&amp;ssl=1\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"wp-image-6455\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/11\/ultimatesurvivalguide-banner.jpg?resize=561%2C157\" alt=\"This is an edited extract from The Ultimate Survival Guide, available for sale now from CVM.\" width=\"561\" height=\"157\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/11\/ultimatesurvivalguide-banner.jpg?w=600&amp;ssl=1 600w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/11\/ultimatesurvivalguide-banner.jpg?resize=300%2C84&amp;ssl=1 300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 561px) 100vw, 561px\" data-recalc-dims=\"1\" \/><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-6455\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><a href=\"http:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/ultimate-survival-guide\">This is an edited extract from The Ultimate Survival Guide, available for sale now from CVM.<\/a><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<div class=\"linkwithin_hook\" id=\"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/the-challenge-from-suffering-what-is-good\/\"><\/div><script>\n<!-- \/\/LinkWithinCodeStart\nvar linkwithin_site_id = 897245;\nvar linkwithin_div_class = \"linkwithin_hook\";\n\/\/LinkWithinCodeEnd -->\n<\/script>\n<script src=\"http:\/\/www.linkwithin.com\/widget.js\"><\/script>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.linkwithin.com\/\"><img src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.linkwithin.com\/pixel.png?w=750\" alt=\"Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...\" style=\"border: 0\" data-recalc-dims=\"1\" \/><\/a>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&#8216;What possible good reasons would God have for permitting evil?&#8217; This is a question often voiced when\u00a0an explanation of why God might allow suffering is presented. The Free Will argument\u00a0goes some way to providing\u00a0an explanation for why a good God might allow suffering. To add to this line of thought it&#8217;s worth thinking about the [&hellip;]<\/p>\n<script>\n<!-- \/\/LinkWithinCodeStart\nvar linkwithin_site_id = 897245;\nvar linkwithin_div_class = \"linkwithin_hook\";\n\/\/LinkWithinCodeEnd -->\n<\/script>\n<script src=\"http:\/\/www.linkwithin.com\/widget.js\"><\/script>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.linkwithin.com\/\"><img src=\"http:\/\/www.linkwithin.com\/pixel.png\" alt=\"Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...\" style=\"border: 0\" \/><\/a>","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":6486,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_links_to":"","_links_to_target":""},"categories":[396],"tags":[1164,1163,442],"aioseo_notices":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/11\/ultimate-survial-guide.jpg?fit=654%2C1000&ssl=1","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p7PoLK-1Gt","jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":3765,"url":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/book-review-why-looking-at-god-evil-personal-suffering\/","url_meta":{"origin":6477,"position":0},"title":"Book Review: Why? Looking at God, evil &#038; personal suffering","date":"15 February 2013","format":false,"excerpt":"Why? : Looking at God, Evil & Personal Suffering When I first heard about this book I was in the middle of thinking about suffering myself. I was writing an essay on evil and was consumed with the topic. So it was with great interest that I watched from a\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Demolition Squad&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":6451,"url":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/the-challenge-from-suffering-logic-love-and-free-will\/","url_meta":{"origin":6477,"position":1},"title":"The Challenge from Suffering: Logic, Love, and Free Will","date":"13 November 2015","format":false,"excerpt":"\u00a0 The following is an extract from 'The Ulimate Survival Guide: How to talk about God, the Bible, and stuff'. The Problem of Evil is something that has gripped the attention of many of the brightest minds throughout history. If God loves us, cares for us, wants our best, then\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Demolition Squad&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/11\/challenge-from-evil-logic-love-free-will.jpg?fit=800%2C400&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":6161,"url":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/is-it-true-four-talks-on-god-religion-science-suffering\/","url_meta":{"origin":6477,"position":2},"title":"Is It True? Four Talks on God, Religion, Science, and Suffering","date":"12 June 2015","format":false,"excerpt":"Kidlington Baptist Church held a\u00a0public lecture series in the Summer of 2015.\u00a0Featuring four leading Christian thinkers, who also happen to each be an Oxford professor, these talks tackle some of the weightiest arguments against belief in God. These talks are all available as a free\u00a0download (below). We've covered some of\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Demolition Squad&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"Talks on BIG questions of God, religion, science, and suffering.","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/06\/is-it-true-kidlington-baptist-church.jpg?fit=846%2C1200&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":3103,"url":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/on-suffering-and-calvin-and-hobbes\/","url_meta":{"origin":6477,"position":3},"title":"On Suffering and Calvin and Hobbes","date":"28 September 2012","format":false,"excerpt":"For ten years Bill Watterson entertained the world through his cartoon series, Calvin and Hobbes. In these cartoons Calvin \u2013 an intrepid little boy \u2013 is always off on some grand adventure with his faithful sidekick, Hobbes. Calvin\u2019s father \u2013 a hybrid of Watterson\u2019s own father and himself \u2013 is\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Demolition Squad&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":4726,"url":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/suffering-and-chai-latte\/","url_meta":{"origin":6477,"position":4},"title":"Suffering and Chai Latte","date":"4 October 2013","format":false,"excerpt":"Recently, we've been looking at what we've coined as The Stephen Fry syndrome - the idea of hiding behind the views of people more famous\/clever\/socially acceptable than yourself. Whatever our worldview, it's easy to lazily hold up as truth things that the glitterati have said, rather than engage with the\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Demolition Squad&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2012\/12\/dem_squad_default_image.png?fit=256%2C256&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":2002,"url":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/uncategorized\/hope-in-the-bigger-picture\/","url_meta":{"origin":6477,"position":5},"title":"Hope in the Bigger Picture","date":"16 December 2011","format":false,"excerpt":"Being an Internet Movie Database addict,\u00a0Star Wars geek and owner of many movie themed t-shirts,\u00a0I often watch 'Inside the Actor's Studio' on one of those (mostly) pointless sky channels.\u00a0It features a Hollywood star being interviewed and always ends with them being asked the same six or seven quirky and often\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"bible\"","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6477"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=6477"}],"version-history":[{"count":11,"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6477\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":6528,"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6477\/revisions\/6528"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/6486"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=6477"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=6477"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=6477"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}