{"id":6451,"date":"2015-11-13T11:46:40","date_gmt":"2015-11-13T11:46:40","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/?p=6451"},"modified":"2015-11-19T10:20:19","modified_gmt":"2015-11-19T10:20:19","slug":"the-challenge-from-suffering-logic-love-and-free-will","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/the-challenge-from-suffering-logic-love-and-free-will\/","title":{"rendered":"The Challenge from Suffering: Logic, Love, and Free Will"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/ultimate-survival-guide\"><img data-attachment-id=\"6455\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/the-challenge-from-suffering-logic-love-and-free-will\/attachment\/ultimatesurvivalguide-banner\/\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/11\/ultimatesurvivalguide-banner.jpg?fit=600%2C168&amp;ssl=1\" data-orig-size=\"600,168\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"The Ultimate Survival Guide\" data-image-description=\"\" data-image-caption=\"&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/ultimate-survival-guide&quot;&gt;This is an edited extract from The Ultimate Survival Guide &#8211; a book with answers to tough questions of faith.&lt;\/a&gt;&lt;\/p&gt;\n\" data-medium-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/11\/ultimatesurvivalguide-banner.jpg?fit=300%2C84&amp;ssl=1\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/11\/ultimatesurvivalguide-banner.jpg?fit=600%2C168&amp;ssl=1\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-6455\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/11\/ultimatesurvivalguide-banner.jpg?resize=561%2C157\" alt=\"The Ultimate Survival Guide\" width=\"561\" height=\"157\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/11\/ultimatesurvivalguide-banner.jpg?w=600&amp;ssl=1 600w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/11\/ultimatesurvivalguide-banner.jpg?resize=300%2C84&amp;ssl=1 300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 561px) 100vw, 561px\" data-recalc-dims=\"1\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><em>The following is an extract from &#8216;<a href=\"http:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/ultimate-survival-guide\">The Ulimate Survival Guide: How to talk about God, the Bible, and stuff<\/a>&#8216;.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>The Problem of Evil is something that has gripped the attention of many of the brightest minds throughout history. If God loves us, cares for us, wants our best, then he wouldn\u2019t want us to be in pain, right? And if God is all-powerful, and can do anything that he wants, nothing is too big for him, then he can make sure that we don\u2019t suffer, right? And if God is all-knowing \u2013 he knows the future, he knows the choices you are going to make, he knows the ideas and thoughts and intentions of those you interact with \u2013 then he knows what will happen and, coupled with his great power, will intervene to stop our suffering, right? This problem, a Trilemma (a three-part problem), needs to be given due thought.<\/p>\n<p>For many people who are in the midst of suffering there might not be much immediate relief given from dealing with the logic of the problem. People in pain want comfort. But this is a two-sided problem, and if we don\u2019t want to give shallow, trite, empty hope to hurting people we need to spend time dealing with the philosophical problem of pain. So here are some reasons to suggest that belief in God, and specifically the Christian God, doesn\u2019t have to ignore this problem, but actually stands strong in the face of it and provides a true hope for all of us.<\/p>\n<p>When we look at one part of this problem, the idea that God is all-powerful, we can take it to mean that God can do whatever he likes. But hang on a moment. Is this true? Would we want to, for example, say that God is a good God if he could lie? The Bible itself states that this isn\u2019t something that God can do.<a href=\"#_ftn1\" name=\"_ftnref1\">[1]<\/a> Or would it be possible for God to make a square circle?<\/p>\n<p>It would seem that there are some things that we would want to suggest that God couldn\u2019t do, that nonetheless don\u2019t make him anything less than the greatest being imaginable. Not being able to lie or cheat doesn\u2019t make God less great. In fact, some might argue that this attribute adds value.<\/p>\n<p>How, we might ask, does this begin to answer the problem of pain? On the face of it there\u2019s nothing seemingly illogical about ending the suffering of someone. That\u2019s not making a circle square. These good objections need to be remembered as we continue to dig further.<\/p>\n<p>As well as saying that God is all-powerful, the Christian alongside this will say that God is all-loving. The Bible states it rather simply: \u2018God is love\u2019.<a href=\"#_ftn2\" name=\"_ftnref2\">[2]<\/a> When we say that God loves us, what do we mean? That he wants our best? Yes. That he doesn\u2019t will any bad thing to happen to us? Yes. Well, if God doesn\u2019t want us to be in pain <em>and<\/em> God has the power to prevent pain, then the question remains, \u2018Why evil?\u2019<\/p>\n<p>It is at this point that the Free Will argument helps us to see through the confusion. To illustrate this, let me share a story from my own life.<\/p>\n<p>When I started going out with Helen, now my wife, it was a slightly nervous time for me. You see, we were friends for a couple of years and the thought of making that transition from good friends to something more was both something that I wanted yet couldn\u2019t be absolutely, 100% sure she wanted. I had a pretty good idea, of course. Helen didn\u2019t strike me as someone who would lead me on!<\/p>\n<p>But the value of our friendship was at stake and in my wanting to transition the relationship to something romantic I had to weigh the risk of losing that state of friendship that we were in. It wasn\u2019t a debilitating problem, and it didn\u2019t stop us from dating. But never did I once think to make absolutely sure that Helen felt the same way I did before making that jump. Helen is an independent, clever, deep-thinking woman. And I love this about her. I wasn\u2019t going to wait until I knew for absolute certain how she felt, and nor was I about to do anything weird to ensure she felt the same way about me. There were no drugs involved in our getting together!<\/p>\n<p>It had to be Helen\u2019s free choice. It had to be this way if there was going to be real, meaningful love between us. I couldn\u2019t force Helen into loving me \u2013 even if I had wanted to \u2013 it had to be freely offered by her. In the same way for God to truly love us, and to want to be in a meaningful relationship with us, he had to leave the choice for us to love him up to us. I suppose he could if had wanted made a world of robots that were programmed to respond to his love. But would we say this was <em>love<\/em> by our standards?<\/p>\n<p>Free love, selfless love, is the only true love and God would have to make us this way if he truly loved us. Of course, with this freedom comes choice and responsibility. If we are truly free to love God, then we are truly free to not love God. Both must be true. In this freedom of choice God is not going to overrule our decisions, even if our decisions result in pain and suffering for ourselves and others \u2013 what the Bible simply refers to as sin.<\/p>\n<p>This, the Free Will argument offers an explanation for why an all-powerful and all-loving God might allow suffering in this world. At this point however, you might be thinking, \u2018Well, this doesn\u2019t sound very good. I\u2019m sure there must be some other way God could have created this world.\u2019 But hold on just a moment. What do we mean when we say \u2018good\u2019?<\/p>\n<p><i>The\u00a0argument will be extended in our next article.<\/i><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"#_ftnref1\" name=\"_ftn1\">[1]<\/a> Numbers 23:19<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"#_ftnref2\" name=\"_ftn2\">[2]<\/a> 1 John 4:8<\/p>\n<div class=\"linkwithin_hook\" id=\"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/the-challenge-from-suffering-logic-love-and-free-will\/\"><\/div><script>\n<!-- \/\/LinkWithinCodeStart\nvar linkwithin_site_id = 897245;\nvar linkwithin_div_class = \"linkwithin_hook\";\n\/\/LinkWithinCodeEnd -->\n<\/script>\n<script src=\"http:\/\/www.linkwithin.com\/widget.js\"><\/script>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.linkwithin.com\/\"><img src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.linkwithin.com\/pixel.png?w=750\" alt=\"Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...\" style=\"border: 0\" data-recalc-dims=\"1\" \/><\/a>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&nbsp; The following is an extract from &#8216;The Ulimate Survival Guide: How to talk about God, the Bible, and stuff&#8216;. The Problem of Evil is something that has gripped the attention of many of the brightest minds throughout history. If God loves us, cares for us, wants our best, then he wouldn\u2019t want us to [&hellip;]<\/p>\n<script>\n<!-- \/\/LinkWithinCodeStart\nvar linkwithin_site_id = 897245;\nvar linkwithin_div_class = \"linkwithin_hook\";\n\/\/LinkWithinCodeEnd -->\n<\/script>\n<script src=\"http:\/\/www.linkwithin.com\/widget.js\"><\/script>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.linkwithin.com\/\"><img src=\"http:\/\/www.linkwithin.com\/pixel.png\" alt=\"Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...\" style=\"border: 0\" \/><\/a>","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":6460,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_links_to":"","_links_to_target":""},"categories":[396],"tags":[565,1013,442,1158],"aioseo_notices":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/11\/challenge-from-evil-logic-love-free-will.jpg?fit=800%2C400&ssl=1","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p7PoLK-1G3","jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":3765,"url":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/book-review-why-looking-at-god-evil-personal-suffering\/","url_meta":{"origin":6451,"position":0},"title":"Book Review: Why? Looking at God, evil &#038; personal suffering","date":"15 February 2013","format":false,"excerpt":"Why? : Looking at God, Evil & Personal Suffering When I first heard about this book I was in the middle of thinking about suffering myself. I was writing an essay on evil and was consumed with the topic. So it was with great interest that I watched from a\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Demolition Squad&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":6477,"url":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/the-challenge-from-suffering-what-is-good\/","url_meta":{"origin":6451,"position":1},"title":"The Challenge from Suffering: What is &#8216;Good&#8217;?","date":"20 November 2015","format":false,"excerpt":"'What possible good reasons would God have for permitting evil?' This is a question often voiced when\u00a0an explanation of why God might allow suffering is presented. The Free Will argument\u00a0goes some way to providing\u00a0an explanation for why a good God might allow suffering. To add to this line of thought\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Demolition Squad&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/11\/ultimate-survial-guide.jpg?fit=654%2C1000&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":6395,"url":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/friends-of-cvm\/miscarriage\/","url_meta":{"origin":6451,"position":2},"title":"Miscarriage","date":"7 October 2015","format":false,"excerpt":"I have been a Dad three times yet I\u2019ve never met any of my children. No I didn\u2019t put them up for adoption or fall out with their Mother, I have been through three miscarriages, the latest is still quite raw. One of the things I have noticed in this\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Friends of CVM&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":6336,"url":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/books-on-apologetics-worth-reading\/","url_meta":{"origin":6451,"position":3},"title":"14 Books on Apologetics Worth Reading","date":"18 September 2015","format":false,"excerpt":"A couple of years ago we highlighted some apologetics books worth reading. As we were putting the finishing touches to the new Demolition Squad apologetics book (out next month!) we thought it would be good to include a list of further, recommended reading. Here is that list for you.\u00a014 apologetics\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Demolition Squad&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/09\/apologetics-books-you-should-be-reading.jpg?fit=966%2C500&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":5937,"url":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/striking-a-nerve\/","url_meta":{"origin":6451,"position":4},"title":"Striking A Nerve","date":"27 February 2015","format":false,"excerpt":"What is the one thing about you that is off-limits? Even your closest friends know not to talk to you about this. It\u2019s personal and it\u2019s private and it is not open for discussion. It\u2019s not that you\u2019re \u2018closed off\u2019. Just careful with certain parts of who you are. After\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Demolition Squad&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"Striking A Nerve","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/striking-a-nerve-e1424983365522.jpg?fit=1140%2C712&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":6205,"url":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/9-coffins\/","url_meta":{"origin":6451,"position":5},"title":"9 Coffins","date":"10 July 2015","format":false,"excerpt":"As I approached the roundabout I could see the helicopter through the top of my windscreen. It was hovering, purposefully, keeping a keen eye on something yet unseen by me. I next caught sight of the police bikes. Two of them, both with their riders with their hands in the\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Demolition Squad&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6451"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=6451"}],"version-history":[{"count":11,"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6451\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":6481,"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6451\/revisions\/6481"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/6460"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=6451"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=6451"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=6451"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}