{"id":3604,"date":"2013-01-11T18:01:10","date_gmt":"2013-01-11T18:01:10","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/?p=3604"},"modified":"2013-01-11T18:01:11","modified_gmt":"2013-01-11T18:01:11","slug":"you-dont-have-to-believe-in-god-to-know-the-difference-between-right-and-wrong","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/you-dont-have-to-believe-in-god-to-know-the-difference-between-right-and-wrong\/","title":{"rendered":"You don&#8217;t have to believe in God to know the difference between right and wrong"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>The question of morality and the moral argument for God is one of the most misunderstood around.<\/p>\n<p>&#8216;I don&#8217;t need to believe in your God to live a good life or to know the difference between good and evil, you t***!&#8217; said everyone I&#8217;ve ever raised the issue with.<\/p>\n<p>This usually creates such a high level of indignation that the only possible recourse is a bare-knuckle brawl under a motorway. But if only people would wait for the end of the sentence, rather than insisting on a rumble to the death, we might get somewhere.<\/p>\n<p>So, it&#8217;s completely and incontrovertibly true that you don&#8217;t have to believe in God to know the difference between right and wrong, or to live a good moral life. I&#8217;m glad we got that one sorted out.<\/p>\n<p>But how about this: if there is no God &#8211; if we are just molecules banging into one another at random &#8211; then why should we believe that morality is anything other than personal choice? Why is good \u2018good\u2019 and bad \u2018bad\u2019? Why should we think that \u2018right\u2019 and \u2018wrong\u2019 are actually things?<\/p>\n<p>If there is no God, then morality is just the by-product of socio-biological evolution. Right and wrong are just decided by humans. Morality is subjective.<\/p>\n<p>Now, you might not see a problem with this, and I agree it sounds fine&#8230;until you realise the following: If there is no God, and no <i>objective<\/i> morality, then when the Nazis exterminated 6 million Jews or the Rwandan genocide happened, whilst we can say &#8216;that&#8217;s not how we would have done it, lads&#8217;, we can&#8217;t actually say that they were really wrong. They were just using their freedom to choose, just engaging in survival of the fittest.<\/p>\n<p>If humans decide morality, then they can decide that <i>anything<\/i> is \u2018good\u2019 or \u2018bad\u2019. That&#8217;s what happens if morality is indeed subjective. In a nightclub where&#8217;s there&#8217;s no dress code whatsoever, a man turning up in loose robes revealing too much is doing nothing worse than the guy who turns up in a dinner jacket.<\/p>\n<p>Now, hopefully you will be repulsed at the idea that things like genocide, rape, child abuse are OK. Whether you&#8217;re a Christian or an agnostic or an atheist, you know that these things are really, really wrong. They are not just bad in your opinion. They are bad and wrong and evil in a much deeper, more binding sense.<\/p>\n<p>But you need to understand that if you don&#8217;t believe in God, you have no reason to think that this binding morality is possible. Your worldview doesn\u2019t allow for it. As an atheist, you are committed to morality being subjective. And when you come to realise that morality isn\u2019t just subjective, then maybe you need to alter your worldview.<\/p>\n<p>What some people do at this point is counter with things like:<\/p>\n<p>&#8216;Well, what about all the bad that religion has caused?!\u2019<\/p>\n<p>Exactly! The fact that you know religion has been responsible for stuff that was genuinely \u2018bad\u2019 and objectively \u2018wrong\u2019 shows that you know morality isn\u2019t just a case of \u2018each to his own\u2019. And I&#8217;m not arguing for Religion. I&#8217;m arguing for Jesus. It&#8217;s not the same thing.<\/p>\n<p>William Lane Craig formulates all this with the following:<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>If God doesn\u2019t exist, then objective moral values don\u2019t exist.<\/li>\n<li>Objective moral values do exist. Therefore&#8230;<\/li>\n<li>God does exist.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>This argument for morality &#8211; on its own &#8211; doesn\u2019t answer every objection to Christianity. But it doesn\u2019t try or need to. What it does show is that there quite clearly <i>is<\/i> a force behind the universe \u2013 a force that agrees with you that some things are really right and some things are really wrong.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s the first hint of Good News.<\/p>\n<div class=\"linkwithin_hook\" id=\"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/you-dont-have-to-believe-in-god-to-know-the-difference-between-right-and-wrong\/\"><\/div><script>\n<!-- \/\/LinkWithinCodeStart\nvar linkwithin_site_id = 897245;\nvar linkwithin_div_class = \"linkwithin_hook\";\n\/\/LinkWithinCodeEnd -->\n<\/script>\n<script src=\"http:\/\/www.linkwithin.com\/widget.js\"><\/script>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.linkwithin.com\/\"><img src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.linkwithin.com\/pixel.png?w=750\" alt=\"Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...\" style=\"border: 0\" data-recalc-dims=\"1\" \/><\/a>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The question of morality and the moral argument for God is one of the most misunderstood around. &#8216;I don&#8217;t need to believe in your God to live a good life or to know the difference between good and evil, you t***!&#8217; said everyone I&#8217;ve ever raised the issue with. This usually creates such a high [&hellip;]<\/p>\n<script>\n<!-- \/\/LinkWithinCodeStart\nvar linkwithin_site_id = 897245;\nvar linkwithin_div_class = \"linkwithin_hook\";\n\/\/LinkWithinCodeEnd -->\n<\/script>\n<script src=\"http:\/\/www.linkwithin.com\/widget.js\"><\/script>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.linkwithin.com\/\"><img src=\"http:\/\/www.linkwithin.com\/pixel.png\" alt=\"Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...\" style=\"border: 0\" \/><\/a>","protected":false},"author":37,"featured_media":3514,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_links_to":"","_links_to_target":""},"categories":[396],"tags":[520,461,521],"aioseo_notices":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2012\/12\/dem_squad_default_image.png?fit=256%2C256&ssl=1","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p7PoLK-W8","jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":5064,"url":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/arguing-from-the-evidence-the-moral-argument\/","url_meta":{"origin":3604,"position":0},"title":"Arguing from the Evidence: The Moral Argument","date":"28 February 2014","format":false,"excerpt":"I recently started watching Homeland. I think it was the combination of Damian Lewis donning US military uniform again as well as the nominations for all those awards that had me curious. I don\u2019t know what I was expecting, but it wasn\u2019t what I found myself watching. Homeland is brutal.\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Demolition Squad&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"The Moral Argument","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/02\/the-moral-argument-homeland.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":4726,"url":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/suffering-and-chai-latte\/","url_meta":{"origin":3604,"position":1},"title":"Suffering and Chai Latte","date":"4 October 2013","format":false,"excerpt":"Recently, we've been looking at what we've coined as The Stephen Fry syndrome - the idea of hiding behind the views of people more famous\/clever\/socially acceptable than yourself. Whatever our worldview, it's easy to lazily hold up as truth things that the glitterati have said, rather than engage with the\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Demolition Squad&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2012\/12\/dem_squad_default_image.png?fit=256%2C256&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":4348,"url":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/belief-in-god-its-just-wishful-thinking\/","url_meta":{"origin":3604,"position":2},"title":"Belief in God: It&#8217;s Just Wishful Thinking","date":"7 June 2013","format":false,"excerpt":"\u201cYou only believe in God because you want someone to be there. You want your life to have meaning and purpose, you want the comfort of knowing someone is in control of it all. In short, your faith is simply a psychological crutch.\u201d Have you come across some form of\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Demolition Squad&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/06\/the_god_argument.jpg?fit=325%2C500&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":4856,"url":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/arguing-from-the-evidence\/","url_meta":{"origin":3604,"position":3},"title":"Arguing from the Evidence","date":"15 November 2013","format":false,"excerpt":"\u201cFor what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Demolition Squad&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2012\/12\/dem_squad_default_image.png?fit=256%2C256&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":4104,"url":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/a-god-of-love-wouldnt-send-good-people-to-hell\/","url_meta":{"origin":3604,"position":4},"title":"A God of Love Wouldn&#8217;t Send Good People to Hell","date":"12 April 2013","format":false,"excerpt":"Recently, I asked a friend who used to believe in God how he lost his \u2018faith\u2019. He told me that two people close to him died in quick succession, and he realised that the idea of God sending those good people to hell was so ridiculous that the Christian god\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Demolition Squad&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":5109,"url":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/demolition-squad\/ethos-we-shouldnt-know-god\/","url_meta":{"origin":3604,"position":5},"title":"Ethos: We shouldn&#8217;t Know God","date":"28 March 2014","format":false,"excerpt":"Ethos \u2013 part of Youth for Christ\u00a0have released a new video looking at the question of morality. This \u2013 part III \u2013 was written by Andy of the\u00a0Demolition Squad. Catch Up Missed part I and II? Have a look here: Part I -\u00a0Can We Prove The Existence of God? Part\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Demolition Squad&quot;","img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/03\/ethos-we-shouldnt-know-god.jpg?fit=1200%2C598&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3604"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/37"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3604"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3604\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":3609,"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3604\/revisions\/3609"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/3514"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3604"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3604"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.cvm.org.uk\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3604"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}